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Harvey
Double Malt Member
Joined: 12 Feb 2009
Posts: 77
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 Posted: Tue Mar 24, 2009 11:09 pm Post subject: |
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Like you Charlie, creating my own bottlings is something i would love to try. I would also be interested in knowing if there is a good UK source for small oak barrels for maturing your own whisky all i can ever find online is small barrels available in the USA.
Rene or anyone else who knows where i can buy small oak barrels in the UK the info would be appreciated.
Cheers
Harvey |
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islayonspey
Double Malt Member
Joined: 12 Sep 2007
Posts: 120
Location: Dufftown, Speyside, Scotland
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| Posted: Wed Mar 25, 2009 8:47 pm Post subject: Re: ardbeg 4 ever |
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| Charlie wrote: | | islayonspey wrote: | | not including my own bottlings of Port Finishing Ardbegs |
Hi Rene
I noticed you mentioned your own bottlings of Port Finished Ardbegs, i have often considered trying something like this myself. If you dont mind could i pick your brains about how you go about creating your own whisky. What i would like to know is:
What size of barrel do you use and where do you get the barrel?
I would assume you add some port or sherry or whatever your preference is to the barrel and let it cure for a while but for how long?
Then how long would you keep your whisky in the barrel before the barrel would have and influence on the whisky?
What is the whisky loss to the angels in a small barrel?
Any other tips or info would be great.
Thanks Charlie |
Hi Charlie,
Loads of questions but here is what I did;
I bought a 5ltr barrel in Cape Town whilst on holiday and it fitted just in my hand bagage. Why, because I looked at the price in Speyside Cooperage and for a 5ltr you pay £85. I bought mine for £20.02 from a winery in Stellenbosch.
Then I filled it with port, which I bought in Belgium, whilst visiting my Mum, and Port is cheaper in Belgium than here!!
After 10 months I emptied the barrel, drunk the Port, of course, named it Glen Morven ( after our house name), and filled it with Ardbeg, which I bought during the cheap month of December.
In addition to the 5 x 10yo Ardbeg's at 46%, I added 1 bottle of Very Young 6yo at 59.9% and a half bottle of Ardbeg @ 60.1% from an Independent Distiller.
Are you following so far
I left the Ardbeg maturating for 5 months after which I had a sip (or two) to see whether it was developing well. I left it for another 5 months and bottled it, after recommendations of a friend of mine, Mark Watt from Duncan Taylor Co Ltd.
During that time I added 1/2 bottle of 10yo due to evaporation (baring in mind that the barrel was in the coldest place in the house, on a stone floor).
Because it was in a small barrel it brought out great flavours and matured faster than a 250ltr barrel too.
So I named it "Adultery", because I fooled around with something which is perfect already. There were 8 0.5ltr bottles and there are only 3 left. One I understand Mark watt found in a whisky bar in Tokyo, the other two are in my cupboard.
Last year I did it again, this time I used "Big Smoke" which I is a vatted malt from some of Islay's best distilleries (Ardbeg, Caol Ila, Bowmore & Laphroaig) At 40% 60% they did well in my barrel, which I filled again with Port. Forgetting about the fact that I filled the barrel direct after emptying the Ardbeg, I found myself having 6 bottles of Glen Morven 2nd Edition "Peated" Port, some friends enjoyed it some not (they lost out).
So late September 2008 after 14 months, "Promisicuous" was bottled. The name fits perfectly, after I fooled around with 4 malts this time.
I'll try again probably next year and tell the Forum all about it.
By the way if you buy a 10ltr barrel, it's cheaper cos its easier to make!
Also Charlie you need to leave the wee barrel alone ! ! ! but not too long in either Port or Rum, or Sherry otherwise those sweeties will kill the whisky.
If and when you try it, give me a shout and we go thru it together.
Cheers for now. Slainte Rene
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Ardbeg 4 ever |
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Vcdman
Single Malt Member
Joined: 19 Feb 2009
Posts: 55
Location: Australia
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| Posted: Thu Mar 26, 2009 10:30 am Post subject: |
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hmmm, what a fun idea!
do you think any of your final products were improved or more just "modified"
I might have to try something like this.. |
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islayonspey
Double Malt Member
Joined: 12 Sep 2007
Posts: 120
Location: Dufftown, Speyside, Scotland
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| Posted: Thu Mar 26, 2009 10:49 am Post subject: |
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| Vcdman wrote: | hmmm, what a fun idea!
do you think any of your final products were improved or more just "modified"
I might have to try something like this.. |
Hi there down-under,
This is one of the responses I got from a Publisher who loves a great dram;
ADULTERY
Perhaps one of the hottest topics for discussion at any gathering of whisky enthusiasts is how a given whisky might taste if it were produced slightly differently. i.e. how would and Islay whisky taste if distilled identically but on the main land? How would a whisky taste if any other singe aspect such as different stills or different level of malted barely were used? These debates will continue to roll on endlessly until the "experiments"? are carried out.
Rene Ramon, a Belgian living in the heart of Speyside has carried out one such experiment with his favourite tipple - Ardbeg. Ironically, although Ardbeg's owners have a good right to claim to be the founders of cask finishing, and certainly have lead the way with some outstanding finishes for the Glenmorangie; its sister distillery, Ardbeg remains un-tampered, being primarily finished in x-bourbon casks. The miniscule amount of Ardbeg matured in an old sherry-wood cask that has been released over the past few years has been received with high acclaim. So Rene set out to see how Ardbeg would react to a few months finishing in a port-wood cask.
During a recent visit to South Africa, Rene seized the opportunity to embark upon his experiment, purchasing a small 1 gallon (5 litres) barrel produced from a dismantled old wine cask; made from French Limosin oak, he had the perfect vessel for his experiment.
First, Ruby and Tawny Port was added to the barrel and left to infuse the wood for nine month. Once removed on the 24th December 2005, it was the turn for the Ardbeg whisky. Rene used 3 bottles of "old faithfull'10 year old, 1 bottle of Very Young "For Discussion', 3 bottles of Very Young were married together with an 8 year old bottling from the Scotch Malt Whisky Society. Left to further mature for 10 months in the small barrel, Rene was left to ponder whether the wood or the port would dominate the powerful and distinctive yet fragile taste of the Ardbeg.
After five months, during the Speyside Spring Festival, a sample was nosed and tasted and a distinctive change was taking place, not least in colour. Confident the whisky could take another five months, it was left in peace under a watchful eye. Finally on 26th October 2006 the whisky was bottled at 51.15% and the verdict drawn.
I should be noted that the ADULTERY is not for re-sale but Rene kindly allowed me a sample while we mused over his next experiment.
According to Rene's notes, the non chill filtered "Adultery' has retained maximum flavour while gaining more body and depth. The traditional deep, smoky and peaty notes infused with the tangy, raisiny tones of the matured Port has given Ardbeg "Adultery' a great lingering finish which should be sampled against both the Uigeadail and the new "Airigh Nam Beist'.
Graeme Wallace
GW Publishing
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Charlie
Master Of Malts
Joined: 23 Sep 2008
Posts: 1417
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| Posted: Thu Mar 26, 2009 1:54 pm Post subject: |
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Rene thanks for taking the time to give such a detailed answer. You have made me more keen than ever to give this a go. I just need to source a barrel.
Charlie |
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McKay
Master Of Malts
Joined: 23 Apr 2007
Posts: 776
Location: Scotland
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| Posted: Thu Mar 26, 2009 10:43 pm Post subject: |
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Hi Rene
mmm it all sounds very tempting to try yourself. I like the sound of your port finished Ardbeg. As Charlie says it is just sourcing a decent small cask to start the fun off.
If anyone knows of any sources for small oak casks post please post here.
McKay |
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Vcdman
Single Malt Member
Joined: 19 Feb 2009
Posts: 55
Location: Australia
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| Posted: Sun Mar 29, 2009 6:54 am Post subject: |
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| Can the oak to be used vary, i assume french oak is best but will i need to be more specific when buying a cask? |
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islayonspey
Double Malt Member
Joined: 12 Sep 2007
Posts: 120
Location: Dufftown, Speyside, Scotland
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| Posted: Tue Mar 31, 2009 4:21 pm Post subject: Sma barrels for sale |
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| McKay wrote: | Hi Rene
mmm it all sounds very tempting to try yourself. I like the sound of your port finished Ardbeg. As Charlie says it is just sourcing a decent small cask to start the fun off.
If anyone knows of any sources for small oak casks post please post here.
McKay |
Hi McKay,
Only place i've seen them was at the Speyside Cooperage in Craigellachie.
The price 4 years ago was £85 for a 5ltr. and £45 for a 10ltr barrel. The barrels are obviously cut off from the 1000's they buy in the USA, not necessary European oak barrels.
Rene
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Harvey
Double Malt Member
Joined: 12 Feb 2009
Posts: 77
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| Posted: Thu Apr 02, 2009 4:32 pm Post subject: |
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| Vcdman wrote: | | Can the oak to be used vary, i assume french oak is best but will i need to be more specific when buying a cask? |
You may find this page interesting:
http://www.thebarrelsource.com/content-20-514.html
Although it is to do with wine it can also be related to whisky.
Harvey |
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Calder
Master Of Malts
Joined: 13 Nov 2008
Posts: 693
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| Posted: Thu Apr 02, 2009 9:37 pm Post subject: |
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Thanks for the link Harvey, that site does have some interesting info on it.
Calder |
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Vcdman
Single Malt Member
Joined: 19 Feb 2009
Posts: 55
Location: Australia
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| Posted: Fri Apr 03, 2009 1:49 am Post subject: |
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| thanks.. |
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Iain Mac
Member
Joined: 08 Mar 2009
Posts: 10
Location: Dun Eideann
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| Posted: Wed Apr 15, 2009 4:46 pm Post subject: |
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The new Laphroaig 18yo which is replacing the 15 is a cracker. Definately a Laphroaig but with some of the complex character of a Lagavulin or Ardbeg Airigh nam Beist.
The Bruichladdich 16yo Bordeaux finished are sweet and delicious. There's 6 of them from different wines, i got hold of a Margaux. Looks like a rose wine. Great stuff - sorry but words fail me here. Try it and see!
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Slainte mhath - a h-uile la a chi is nach fhaic.
http://tocasaid.blogspot.com/ |
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Islay Pete
Master Of Malts
Joined: 28 Sep 2007
Posts: 513
Location: Scotland
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| Posted: Wed Apr 15, 2009 6:55 pm Post subject: |
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Iain, I have heard good things about the Laphroaig 18 from a couple of people now, looking forward to trying it.
Pete |
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dodgydrammer
New Member
Joined: 30 Apr 2009
Posts: 4
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| Posted: Thu Apr 30, 2009 10:48 pm Post subject: |
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I, too have heard good things about the Laphroaig 18; buddy of mine (over at the Whisky Party blog) had some at a Laphroaig tasting and said it could easily replace the 15 yo as his favorite scotch.
Three personal favs at the moment: Ardbeg Uigeadail, Highland Park 25, Coal Ila G&M Connoiseur's Choice 10 yo (1995).
Tried the new Laphroaig 25, a vatting of bourbon and sherry casks. Didn't take notes on it, but my impression was good, but not good enough for the price tag ($400-500); better off with a Port Ellen OB 7th or 8th release. |
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