Please Help With Me With My First Buy

[terrysharpe]

hi can any one give me some idears as to what would be a good bottle to buy as my 1st in my collection i have around £180 to £280 to spend on it
thanks terry
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t.sharpe

[Kray]

Hi Terry and welcome to the SMW forum

Are you looking for suggestions for a bottle that you want to drink or to collect? I assume you mean to collect but thought i would check. If you do mean to collect, will your collection be simply a collection of good whiskies you like or an investment.

[Grant M]

If it is to collect, i would recommend sticking to the more well known whiskies. There is a good post on this forum somewhere about collecting whisky, if i find it i will post a link or perhaps someone knows which post i mean.

[Big Mac]

Grant do you mean this post which i posted last year. It was an article on the Mctears auction site. Anyway here it is again:

If you're looking for somewhere new to invest your money, then you could do a lot worse than look towards single malt whisky. Five years ago there were only two annual whisky auctions in the UK. Today there are four. Whisky auction specialist McTear's of Glasgow estimates that last year whisky sales were £500,000. McTear's reports a significant jump in the number of potential investors lining up to put their money in to malt.

And it's not just in the world of auctions in which investable whisky is making waves. Alternative investment companies are springing up, intent on putting serious money in to a sector that seems impervious to the ravages of the financial meltdown. In Scotland a new investment club has been formed to help a select few invest a minimum of £10,000 in to a portfolio of whiskies.
Whisky, it would seem, is the new fine wine. Last year it is estimated that worldwide more than £20 million changed hands in this, Scotland's liquid gold.

But the market is still in its infancy. Not only are the returns from whisky better than many other sectors but there are still a large number of opportunities to invest and make healthy returns. Over the last year whisky has been enjoying a worldwide boom, with Scottish single malt at the forefront of it. Rising demand from the BRIC economies and parts of South America have created widespread shortages and driven up demand - and, inevitably, prices.

Whisky matures in oak casks and every cask will mature in a slightly different way and produce a different taste, sometimes markedly so. Up to a point the whisky will get better with age and certainly rarer - the angels drink deep from the maturing casks, consuming around 2% per annum. When the balance between wood, spirit and maturation is reached the distillers bottle their precious malts. But this "wasting"? asset has one major advantage over wine - it doesn't improve or deteriorate in the bottle and is always in perfect condition.

Like the finest of wines, the price, due to rarity, rises pretty steeply too.

Find a bottle that is part of a limited release, has a special appeal to the whisky market and tastes good, and its value as an investment becomes clear.
Whisky has some 'Grand Cru' producers, distilleries that produce whiskies that attract the attention of connoisseurs, collectors and investors. If you'd put together a mixed case of the best bottles from the likes of Ardbeg, Bowmore, The Dalmore, Highland Park, The Macallan, Springbank and Talisker for instance, it's highly possible you would have trebled or quadrupled your investment over 5 to 10 years.

Sukhinder Singh runs The Whisky Exchange (TWE), which has two shops in London and a comprehensive whisky on-line business specialising in fine and rare whisky. He urges caution when it comes to new investment.
"You need to know what you are doing," he says "It's important to speak with people who understand whisky and more than that, enjoy drinking it and know what's good about it. And while there are some amazing deals to be done you need to know where to find them. In most cases making money from whisky will take a bit of time."?

Andrew Bell, whisky specialist for auction house McTear's in Glasgow, says that at auction, too, there has been a sudden influx of new investors, but he agrees with Singh "I would say that they are not interested in the bottom end of the market but are looking at the more expensive and potentially expensive bottles, my view is you need passion and patience."?

Ken Grier, director of malts for The Macallan, owner of some of the most sought after whiskies, argues that even relatively modest amounts can be worthwhile.
"We have a selection of whiskies in the Fine & Rare range with a price tag of five figures," he says. "But if you had bought one of the seasonal bottles available at the distillery, or our woodland bottle, both of which sold for under £100 just a couple of years ago, you might get £500 or more for them now."?

David Robertson, from The Dalmore, which has attracted record prices in the past, agrees. He argues "when a distillery makes the headlines for an auction record, there is a positive knock-on to other malts in the distillery's portfolio."?

The issue is particularly pertinent now because many within the whisky industry believe in the current climate a bottle of malt may well sell for £100,000 this year.
Both Grier and Robertson say that they have no such designs, though both have stocks of malt more than 60 years old that might attract such prices, and both believe that such a price tag is realistic. They're both staying tight-lipped about future 'spectaculars' but admit to ambitious plans.

The increased number of special bottlings has created a momentum of its own and attracted investors desperate to find a way of making a return on their money at a time when the finance markets offer a high risk and little return.
One such company is Alternative Investment Assets, an Edinburgh-based company that has now turned its attention to historical assets, iconic memorabilia, premium wine and whisky.

Key to all of the investment potential is a route back to market. There's no point in buying whisky if you can't sell it at a profit at a later date. That problem has been addressed by a new investment club, buying broad baskets of whisky from low priced drinking whiskies to special bottles and has done a deal with The Whisky Shop chain to sell them on. We're encouraging individuals with a minimum of £10K to invest to consider joining us,"? said a spokesman for the group. "We are spreading the risk and giving investors the choice to leave their money in to make a profit, or cash all or part of it as they're ready. It offers a far better option than the finance markets."?

While serious investors driven by gain are targeting whisky, the sector is also being driven by the increased interest in whisky as a premium drink with true provenance and legendary heritage. A substantial group of people drawn to buying premium whisky are enthusiasts, attracted by the taste of the drink and the opportunity of tasting something rare and unusual, and probably unrepeatable.

At the top end, there are an increasing number of individuals prepared to pay thousands on expensive bottles to drink them. The trend was illustrated in 2005 when a man walked in to the Penny Hill Park Hotel, bought a bottle of The 62 year old Dalmore single malt for £32,000 then sat down with a few friends and enjoyed it, tipping the barman with a precious taste. While this marks an extreme case, it's not an isolated incident and a noticeable trend towards buying rare whisky to drink has taken hold.

Singh at TWE has a number of customers across the world who are constantly in touch with him about certain releases. "We deal with billionaires and millionaires who want to try rare whiskies that they have heard about or are prepared to pay a lot of money for - particular whiskies that they have tried in the past but are now no longer available. If they come up for sale because a collector makes a bottle or two available they want them and have the funds to secure them."?

Grier, agrees, "We recently supplied a certain well-known billionaire from an Eastern European country with a selection of Fine & Rare bottles worth a substantial five figure sum for an event that included heads of state. Every single bottle was opened and finished - the guests wanted to experience the whisky."?

Anecdotes such as these do more than merely amuse. They have a deep relevance for the profitability of the whisky investment market, because every time a rare bottle of whisky is opened and consumed, every other bottle of the same release goes up in value. While it's very hard to monitor exactly how much of a particular batch of whisky is left, information on previous sales and how often a whisky comes up for sale or auction gives whisky specialists a pretty good idea. An internet posting by someone saying that they have opened a rare whisky and loved it will send waves through the world of whisky.

"There are a number of people buying whisky today who want to taste something they may never get the chance to taste again,"? says Robertson. "There are consumer investors and what I call museum investors,"? says whisky writer Charles MacLean. "When a really good quality whisky is released the word spreads like wildfire and the bottles are quickly snapped up. From then the price starts to rise rapidly and these great tasting malts will always be in demand."?

With whisky investment clearly a hot topic right now, all eyes are on the industry's big guns as they attempt to position themselves at the pinnacle of the super premium malt market in 2009.


What to invest in:

Ken Grier, director of malts, Edrington: "There are a number of leading brands such as The Macallan that offer a range of opportunities. If you invest in nothing else, buy a Macallan Rankin. Each bottle has a unique label with a Rankin Polaroid and a book signed by the photographer. They're selling out rapidly and will be a great investment."?

Charles MacLean, whisky writer: "I would look beyond just closed distilleries and seek out some of the proprietary bottling from the 70s or even early 80s. Some of the blends from that time were of excellent quality, too, and if they're not going up in price already, they will be."?

David Robertson, The Dalmore: "Seek out special releases from the recognized iconic distilleries and find out which releases have a peerless taste reputation, they will always be in demand. We currently have an amazing 50 year old Dalmore which we're selling in 10cl Portugese crystal decanters for £699," he says. "First and foremost it's a superb drinking experience - the opportunity to taste time as it contains whiskies distilled in 1868, 1878, 1922, 1926, 1939 - and also a great investment. Rarity, liquid excellence and the fact it comes from the home of our exclusive 62 yo - a winning combination"

Sukhinder Singh: "You will make money from the recognized big names but you have to be careful. Some of the closed distilleries are worth seeking out, and not just the obvious ones such as Rosebank and Port Ellen. Ones with a reputation for great tasting malt such as St Magdalene and Brora."?

Chart 1: Single malt whisky's top 10 "Grand Crus'
This selection of distilleries are commonly held to be outstanding investment opportunities. Not all releases will necessarily provide outstanding returns.

Lowlands - Rosebank (now closed, very short stocks)
Campbeltown - Springbank (an artisan, boutique distiller)
Speyside - The Macallan (the leading super premium malt)
Highlands - The Dalmore (a legendary malt and home of the 62 yo)
Islands - Talisker (Skye's iconic producer)
Highland Park (Orkney's gold, respected by many connoisseurs)
Islay - Ardbeg (Islay's enfant terrible)
Laphroaig (love it or hate it and lots love it!)
Bowmore (iconic black Bowmore's arguably pioneered the sector)
Port Ellen (now closed, so very, very tight stocks)


Chart 2: How some of the "Grand Crus' performed 2003-2008

2003 2006 2007 2008 %
Ardbeg Provenance 1974 200 335 600 620 +210%
Black Bowmore 1993/4/5 960 1322 1466 2075 +113%
The Dalmore 50 YO 710 985 - 1620 +128%
Highland Park 1977 Bi-cent 70 120 160 215 +207%
Laphroaig 40 Year Old - 550 650 835 +61%
The Macallan 50 YO 3650 5200 - 7650 +110%
Springbank 1973 Green Label 500 435 550 800 +60%

Methodology: The figures represent £ sterling, are an average of auction and specialist retail prices. Laphroaig 40 year old wasn't available in 2003 so the figure is taken from 2006.

Chart 3: Premium Single Malt whisky against other sectors

2000 2003 2006 2007 2008 %
Whisky 100 215 250 275 390 +290
Fine wine 100 103 218 270 310 +210
Shares 100 106 110.6 106 103 +3

Methodology This chart compares a mixed case of 20 different premium malts with a basket of the finest wine and the FTSE 100 shares index. The figures have been averaged and converted in to a base index for 100. The chart shows the change in value between 2000 and 2008 and the percentage increase.

Mac

[Tom W]

If its your first to drink then dont just buy one bottle! buy a range from supermarkets to see what you like!

[Grant M]

Cheers Mac, that us the post i meant.

[terrysharpe]

i think im going to get Highland Park 25 years, Cardboard box
for my investment collection
i have found it for £140+vat + postage
would any one be able to advice me is this a far price
or would i be better waiting for one on (ebay)
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t.sharpe

[Alastair]

is this this the old discontinued round bottle of Highland Park 25 and not the new flat bottle? If so it is currently £183.10 inc vat over at The Whisky Exchange. I think you would get this for less in a private sale or auction.

You may be interested in the next big whisky auction at Mctears for rare & collectable whisky, it is on Tuesday, 25 January 2011 at 10:30 AM Although the catalogue for this auction is not yet available, but it will appear here:
www.mctears.co.uk/auctions/browse.aspx?id=bcf46381-56b7-4a15-b055-4484d2370214

[terrysharpe]

hi yes its the old bottle
brill i will have a look at the link thanks terry
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t.sharpe

[5-12-1908]

Perhaps the "Glenfiddich Snow Peonix" would be a good start.
Would still leave money to buy some others.


Personally, I prefer to drink my bottles, because I know if the mood hits, Ive had a drink, and my son is around, hell and high water wouldnt stop me sharing a bottle.


well, he is MY pension fund!


that and you're here for a good time not a long time, Id hate to think I left them, as an investment only for someone to drink them who knew no better (or didnt appreciate them)


Buy two of everything, and at least taste them! or stick to shares....theyre tried and trusted over the long term..