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Jim Murray thumps the sulphur tub again!
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bifter
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 10, 2012 1:11 pm    Post subject: Jim Murray thumps the sulphur tub again! Reply with quote

Well the sulphur issue won't go away, at least not as long as Jim Murray sucks Kentucky air. In his latest Whisky Bible (2013) he lambasts the whisky industry for not addressing the sulphur-tainted sherry cask issue which he claims is now 'rampant' and spread worldwide. An article on Monday quotes him as saying:

Quote:
'Sadly it is no longer restricted to Scotland: defective whisky is found in Ireland, Japan, Canada ... Whichever country you may be in. It is time to wake up, pull your head out of the sand and smell the sulphur. I am meeting people who are being turned off by this stink bomb nose and bitter finish they cannot tolerate. We have got to the stage where a significant number of bottles are substandard.'
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2214438/Whiskys-stink-bomb-nose-Respected-writer-warns-Scotch-marred-whiff-rotten-eggs.html *


Jim also asks that the industry put aside some money to deal with the issue by ensuring that the labs have sulphur-sensitive tasters and that tainted casks are removed from circulation. Naturally the Scotch Whisky Association refuse to bash the industry, presumably mindful of their members' interests (i.e. sales):

Quote:
'It's a matter of personal taste. Distillation, maturation, blending and cask selection all play a role in reducing levels of sulphurous notes to a desired level. Consumers of a billion bottles of Scotch a year are very happy with the character of their favourote brands.'
Scotch Whisky Association spokeswoman Rosemary Gallagher


It would seem that SMWS, who have tried hard to market sulphur-tainted casks to the cognoscenti as just another element of the whisky profile, were forewarned. The latest release of their magazine, Unfiltered, contains a piece on this very subject in which the author (connected to Glenmorangie) labels those who dismiss all sulphur notes as a taint as 'lazy' and rather patronisingly tells them to 'get over' it. He acknowledges that sulphur candles spoil casks (which nonetheless still seem to be getting used!) so really this misses the point - most people don't have a problem with Nectar d'Or, what we're talking about here is the use of sulphur candles.

In these very forums a little while ago I conducted a poll that seems categorically to reflect our collective repulsion to sulphur and also, somewhat unscientifically mind, gives the lie to the assertion that only a third of people can detect this influence:

http://www.scotchmaltwhisky.co.uk/forum/viewtopic.php?t=2365

So... is Jim just trying to drum up publicity for his new book (am I an unwitting stooge?)? Is the problem non-existent or becoming worse? Is the SWA burying it's head in the sand? Is the industry not taking responsibility? I'd be glad of your opinions here.

* I do apologise for quoting from the Daily Fail though I did find it hilarious to find this article featured pictures of: girls drinking whisky from tumblers... with ice; casks of Glenfiddich who are innocent in all of this as far as I'm concerned!
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William
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 10, 2012 1:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Perhaps it is a case of drumming up publicity, he has got the Whisky Bible 2013 column space in the Daily Mail/Mail Online and i am sure other publications around the world with his condemnation of sulphur tainted whisky and his declaration that an American whisky is the best in the world in his opinion.

Is the problem of sulphur really so widespread or is it coming more to light with the increasing popularity of whisky and increased numbers of small batch or single cask bottlings where it may be more obvious to detect as the sulphur tainted cask hasnt been diluted in large vattings.

It is very wrong that the Daily Mail have used a picture of maturing Glenfiddich casks in an article about substandard sulphur tainted whisky, sulphur is not a problem or ever has been for any Glenfiddich bottlings to my knowledge.
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albo
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 10, 2012 1:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm confused by all this.

What to do? Don the tin hat and spout conspiracy theories.
The SMWS know they have a problem getting hold of decent casks at decent prices, so they start taking substandard casks to punt out to their customers, many of these are sulphur ridden, but they pass this off with marketing flannel. They get wind of the JM rant about sulphur and as a defence release an article which says people are lazy to write off sulphur notes, this just happens to coincide with the JM article.

JM writes something which calls into question the SWA in order to sell more of his books, knowing he has a large soap box to use and add to the sales of his book. The SWA deny this on the face of things, to save a scorn on their industry. However, deep down they love it, they know it will get more and more people to talking about whisky and trying different whisky to see if they can detect sulphur.

The distilleries have no way of knowing which casks are tainted and which are not, they may also have paid handsomely for a cask to find out it's tainted after first fill, but will they dump it and not reuse it? I'd say no, they will fill again and again, and use the contents to either ship off to somewhere like the SMWS who will buy sulphur tainted casks, or put them into blends.

In truth, probably some of all of the above are true, however, none of it will be as bad as any one party makes out.

Best thing I can do, is to keep drinking and enjoying this fine drink, keep opining in here to fellow like minded enthusiasts.

Some of the whisky is sulphur ridden, I don't like it, so I stay away from it. It's no biggie, it's not like I'm running out of bottle to try now is it.
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Brummie
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 10, 2012 2:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I have to say i have only ever detected traces of sulphur in independent small batch releases and never in mass produced core range bottlings of the big distilleries. Perhaps i am not as sensitive to sulphur as Jim Murray, if that is the case i am very happy about it.

Good point about the Glenfiddich picture in the daily mail article, if i was Glenfiddich i wouldnt be pleased.
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Alexppp
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 10, 2012 2:20 pm    Post subject: Re: Jim Murray thumps the sulphur tub again! Reply with quote

bifter wrote:

In these very forums a little while ago I conducted a poll that seems categorically to reflect our collective repulsion to sulphur and also, somewhat unscientifically mind, gives the lie to the assertion that only a third of people can detect this influence:


While this is true, I would doubt the poll on these forums reflect the tastes of the 'average' consumer, who is less of a whisky fanatic than those of us who post here! Personally, I was on the 'never detected sulphur' vote, but I'm pretty sure I'd be put off if I had a sulphurous whisky. Maybe it's because I've never had an SMWS bottling, and have mostly had mainstream distillery bottles.
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chrisg
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 10, 2012 3:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I have to say i havent come across any mainstream distillery bottlings that are tainted by sulphur.

Not got my copy of the new whisky bible yet but i will certainly be looking through it to see how many distillery core range bottlings he declares as sulphur tainted or will i find as others have said that this problem isnt as big as made out and is mainly a problem amongst limited edition small batch releases from both distillery and independent bottlers.
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bifter
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 10, 2012 3:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Some good points above.

As most here will know JM claims this problem began in the 1990s as a result of changes in the sherry denomination rules (which I won't go into here):
Quote:
"It's all down to sulphur candles,"? he says. "Otherwise, where was this problem in the 80s, or the 70s, or the 60s? It didn't exist."
http://www.smws.co.uk/your-society-adventure/article-archive/A_matter_of_taste.html

Personally I'm particularly struck by the lack of any verification from industry figures even on the existence of this phenomenon. Whenever I've heard responses on this topic from those in the industry they are pretty much only denials or bland statements from PR bods such as the one from the SWA above. The SWA seem to get very exercised about cask issues such as staves but have blatantly ignored sulphur candles. Does this mean they are happy that candles don't have an influence on whisky or that it does but they simply don't regard it as an issue? And surely there must be enough people around from the industry and among connoisseurs who can vouch one way or another for what Jim Murray says - either this problem existed all along or it didn't. That's the basic question but one to which there doesn't yet appear to be a consensus on the answer.

As for my personal opinion, the SMWS casks suggest heavily to me that there are plenty of sulphur-treated casks in circulation and the distilleries that buy them are clearly delineated. SMWS have shamelessly marketed them but at least allude to it in the notes and people do seem to keep buying them so it's difficult to say they should be removed from circulation as JM suggests. However I have also found the odd sulphured distillery expression, always sherried, and it makes me extremely wary of purchasing anything blind. If we are to believe Jim Swan, sulphur candles are no longer used for preservation but, if this was the cause of the issue, the sulphur bugbear will not be eradicated in my lifetime. If it ever turns out that all this was avoidable it would certainly disappoint me that something wasn't done about it at the time.
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Innes
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 10, 2012 4:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I was under the impression that sulphur candles are no longer used for preservation but there will be a whole lot of casks sitting in warehouses which were preserved using sulphur candles before the practice was stopped.
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 10, 2012 9:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I have no doubt that there is a very small amount of sulphur tainted whiskies that get released but i really do think it is a small amount.

If Mr Murray thinks there is that a significant number of bottles are substandard then he should really back up his claim by listing/naming this significant number of substandard bottles. He is a powerful man and can effect whisky sales with his comments and by the way they get reported. Just look at the poorly written daily mail article, surely this will wrongly influence anyone reading it that does not know any better.
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 10, 2012 10:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

[quote="William"
Quote:
Is the problem of sulphur really so widespread or is it coming more to light with the increasing popularity of whisky and increased numbers of small batch or single cask bottlings where it may be more obvious to detect as the sulphur tainted cask hasnt been diluted in large vattings.


William makes a very good point here.
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John
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 11, 2012 12:07 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quaich1 wrote:
[quote="William"
Quote:
Is the problem of sulphur really so widespread or is it coming more to light with the increasing popularity of whisky and increased numbers of small batch or single cask bottlings where it may be more obvious to detect as the sulphur tainted cask hasnt been diluted in large vattings.


William makes a very good point here.
Good point, when you hear of sulphur tainted whisky, even on here it does tend to be small batch independent bottlings.
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bifter
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 11, 2012 10:52 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Kava wrote:
I have no doubt that there is a very small amount of sulphur tainted whiskies that get released but i really do think it is a small amount.

If Mr Murray thinks there is that a significant number of bottles are substandard then he should really back up his claim by listing/naming this significant number of substandard bottles. He is a powerful man and can effect whisky sales with his comments and by the way they get reported. Just look at the poorly written daily mail article, surely this will wrongly influence anyone reading it that does not know any better.


If the number is so small then it shouldn't be too expensive for the industry to clean up the problem as JM is suggesting. Also if it is a tiny minority then the SMWS has either been revelling in these casks or buying them for commercial reasons.

I think JM does name certain distilleries/expressions, in last year's book he even fingered Glenfarclas 15 - and BTW George Grant is one of the few industry figures I've seen quoted on this issue and he was at pains to stress the quality control at Glenfarclas. JM seems to be claiming it's a growing problem so I'd expect to see a lot more references to it in the 2013 edition of the Whisky Bible. On the other hand consider 2013's 10 Years & Under single cask winner - SWMS 33.116 Aged 8 years (Ardbeg), I've not tried it but the notes contain many of SMWS's keywords for sulphur:

http://www.smws.co.uk/whisky/33.116Heather-smokedbarbecuedcrayfish.html

Is JM's self-declared impartiality mollified by loyalty to certain brands?

Regardless, I've experienced sulphur personally and it introduces an (for me unacceptable) element of Russian roulette to any blind sherry-related purchases. I tried the Uigeadail at Whisky Fringe this year and I thought it was sulphured. I also tried a Kilchoman sherry cask release that was rank with the stuff. It's all very well to say this isn't an issue, especially if you're lucky enough not to be sensitive to it, but there are enough people for whom this utterly demolishes their enjoyment. I'm still agnostic as to the causes but I'm finding the dismissals from the brands themselves and the patina being applied by the SWA a little alarming. It's as if the industry is too afraid to even examine this issue in the cold light of day for fear of affecting sales.
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Crane
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 11, 2012 12:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I am sensitive to sulphur and hate it, i am also a very regular drinker of Glenfarclas 15, which Jim Murray fingered last year. Personally i have never come across a bottle of Glenfarclas 15 which was tainted, even slightly by sulphur. Obviously Jim had a different batch from the bottles i have been drinking (i get through approx 6 bottles of Glenfarclas 15 per year). I consider myself very familiar with the Glenfarclas 15 and as i have said i have never detected any hint of sulphur.

It will be interesting to see if he has revisited the Glenfarclas 15 in the 2013 edition and if he still finds some sulphur in it.
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bifter
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 11, 2012 12:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Crane wrote:
Personally i have never come across a bottle of Glenfarclas 15 which was tainted, even slightly by sulphur.


I agree, I noted this in my review in the tasting notes section given JM's comments.
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 11, 2012 5:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
It will be interesting to see if he has revisited the Glenfarclas 15 in the 2013 edition and if he still finds some sulphur in it.


Crane, I just received my copy of JM's 2013 book today and re Glenfarclas 15, he states in part:: "There is only minimal sulphur here, but enough to take the edge off a normally magnificent whisky, at the death".
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