Does This Exist?

[OakGuy]

I'm just wondering if there is a distillery producing Scotch that:

1 - does not use caramel color, ever.

2 - has a line of Scotch that does not use bourbon or sherry barrels, but rather either new barrels or barrels that were only previously used to age distillate from barley.

[Alexppp]

Exclusively no bourbon/sherry casks? No, I'd be very surprised if there was.

You could try the Deanston Virgin Oak if you're after a natural colour single malt that's aged in new oak. Not a huge fan of it myself although I like Deanston in general. There must be others but can't think of any off the top of my head.

[TheMaster]

The only one I can think of is Bruichladdich. I don't think they colour any of their whisky at all. They also use all sorts of random and bizarre casks - whether they have a line specifically sherry/bourbon free I can't say, but I doubt it. It anything they will do certain releases that are virgin oak, or ex-wine cask, but I'd suggest that is a distillery you explore more if you are looking.

[OakGuy]

Thank you for the replies. Deanston looked promising but the Virgin Oak bottles are first aged in Bourbon casks and then finished in virgin oak per the video on the website. As for Bruichladdich, they are clear on the no coloring policy but I could find nothing that did not touch bourbon or wine seasoned wood in their current inventory. Oh well. I'll keep looking.

[TheMaster]

Just out of interest, is there a reason why your're asking the question? There may be alternative thoughts to consider if we know the reason behind the reason.

[OakGuy]

My personal interest is in enjoying and comparing spirits of pure source grain (or fruit in the case of brandies) and that have no influence from other agricultural products during aging other than the barrel itself. If I could find a Scotch that hadn't been influenced by Bourbon (of mash bill and additives unknown to me), Sherry (although since the 70s it seems the casks have not contained drinking Sherry), or Port (fortified with brandy of undisclosed origin), I would like to compare it to 100% malt whiskeys from the states, not to mention 100% corn bourbons, or 100% ryes that have also been aged in new oak. It's just a personal curiosity on my part.

But I do understand the preference for used barrels for many or even most consumers. I cannot say I have been able to find any spirit that was aged in a used barrel that was previously utilized to house the same spirit type. That I would find interesting if it was practiced.

[TheMaster]

I see.

Any Single Malt Scotch that is entirely matured in new/virgin oak is going to be some sort of special release, as will be any that has matured in casks that have only previously held Scotch whisky. It's not something that there is the demand for.

Your best bet, if you wanted to do a comparison of the effect of maturation on base spirit types, from new oak, would be to acquire some small oak casks and select on your desired toasting level (they are available online), try to get hold of some New Make, and mature your own.

Naturally, it wouldn't be a fair comparison anyway as New Make will vary from distillery to distillery based on the production method; whilst casks have a significant impact on the resultant spirit, there is massive influence on the distillation process, from yeast strains, fermentation times, still shape, condensation method, width of the cuts, abv levels and the abv level at cask fill (often overlooked but massively important). Simply changing the cask fill abv by 5% will change the types of solute that are in the resulting spirit.

Furthermore, even if you put identical New Make into 2 casks that you thought were the same, for the same time, in the same location, the result would be different as they would be made out of different parts of the tree or different trees, and as such would have different graining, different levels of sugars (hemicellulose) etc.


But good luck on your venture

[dramblersanonymous]

#1 Is easy. Lots of distilleries don't use caramel.

#2 Is much much harder and there is a reason for that. New oak does not lend itself particularly well to long aging periods. Sounds like you know a thing or two about wood so I won't bother with details, but the wood and sugars tend to dominate the spirit fairly quickly. So can only really bottle young. You might be better to look for something 3rd fill.or heavily re-charred to minimise any previous cask influence?

However, there are some examples out there. Though they tend to be experiments rather than regular releases.

Glen garioch virgin oak - pretty good. Very sweet, can find for around £60
Auchentoshan virgin oak - Good, quite young. Similar money.

I'll have a think. There are more...

[Timp]

I had a look at a piece on the Bruichladdich web site re their use of virgin oak and I think the Octomore 7.4 virgin oak is just that. Sold out now but still around at auction.

I think that may be your problem in that virgin oak is not regularly used in standard ranges even from those distilleries that experiment with it.

Did have a quick look at whether they season Mizunara casks prior to use, as they gained popularirty in Japan because of limitations on import during the secon world war where they wouldnt have been able to get bourbon or sherry either. It does reputedly have a strong flavour influence so it wouldnt suprise me if they did tone it down prior to use.

Interesting question. Let us know how you get on.

[TheWM]

As has been mentioned previously virgin oak is unusual and I’ve not found many (any) decent whisky that’s been aged only in new barrels that I have enjoyed. The oak will play a big part too (European vs American).

What I think you may be better off doing is finding drams that have spent a long time in a tired, well used cask, so that the influence of the wood doesn’t overpower the spirit.

[dramblersanonymous]

[Timp]

[OakGuy]

[OakGuy]

[eelbrook]

I'm no historian. But I know that whisky has typically been matured in ex-bourbon or ex-sherry casks/barrels for decades. To many, such maturation is one of the things that defines "whisky". So, if you're truly interested in whisky, why the desire to taste malt spirit matured in virgin oak (which often produces less than stunning results)?